At BBO, my wife and I ran into an interesting hand.
The essence was that Opener has a three-loser hand (xx-void-AKQ10-AQJ10xxx) and Responder has a nice collection with a double fit (Ax-KJxx-xxxx-Kxx). The same basic problem could also arise with any other long suit and any other 4-piece.
The auction started with the 7-4 hand describing a long, powerful club suit via 2♣-P-2♦(GF)-P-3♣. As you can see, 6♣ is icy as hell, but 7♦ makes on a 3-2 split. Bidding 7♦ on this, when you need a 3-2, seems like a bit much, but give Responder five small diamonds. ♠Ax ♥KJx ♦xxxxx ♣Kxx.
The solution for this kind of a problem evades me at the moment. There may be no solution, for that matter, but I still wonder if there might be some general operating procedures for more frequently checking/showing alternative strains for slam purposes. Some conventions, like a 3M rebid after a 2♣ opening to show a 6-4 hand with diamonds and the indicated major, serve this additional function well.
The pattern bidding inverted spiral relay lunatics who can unwind a 6520 hand with four bids might like problems of this nature. As I am an empathetic cuebidding wrap-around yummy toes implied LTTC Type II lunatic, I am also curious.
Of course, this does remind me of the story I heard about Rodwell coming up with 30-some pages of system notes revisions to ask for a Jack for grand slam purposes and the reaction of almost putting the man out of his misery. Bah! 40-some pages might be too much, but only 30-something?
Anyway... Any ideas of thoughts? Maybe the auction is easier after a simple 1♣ opening. Hmmm.
Individual styles will vary but I'd never think of opening 2C with this hand. 1C then 2D, will be a good start. It won't solve the current problem but, still, it will be a good start.
And, no; I don't think you can solve this particular case because if you adopt your bidding system to solve this kind of problems then many easier ones will become difficult to cope with. It's like those graphical illusion tricks. The brain/eye don't see it, because if it could then it wouldn't cope with daily routine issues.
Yeah, I think you are right. Club slams are the most difficult to start with. Adding in texture of a 7-4 canape makes my head explode, and that is hard to do.
We need spaces to ask
Lets say we start 2C pd 2D, we bid 2H as kokish relay, pd 2S, now opener bid 3D has several meanings, real H suit and 4+C or D Responder relay asking(3H), opener 3S is 4+C, 3NT 4+D(pd can stop at 3nt, with 5-5 or better , or some power hand with D, opener can bid 4D 5-5, or 4C would be 6+H and 4D. with H+C power hand, opener can bid 3S then put off 3nt ,say 4C as 5-5, 4d as 6H 4C)etc...
now we have 3C available to show at least 64 in minor, power hand ,responder can bid 3D flag for C, 3H flag for D, 3S both fit, and 3nt no fit etc... I am not sure how this should go, but by modifing kokish relay, almost lose nothing and we free of 3C, thats definitely a good start
Interesting idea, building onto Kokish. I'm not sure what that would do to the alternatives that I have to accepting the relay, but that might be able to be worked in.
As I keep seeing hands like this, I keep wondering more and more about Nilsland's idea of the 2♦ opening as a second strong opening and its impact on 2♣ sequences.
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